How Micro-Partnerships Build Stronger People Networks and Better Products (with Kurt Schmidt)

In this interview, we’re talking about connectivity of a different sort - stepping up your networking game. No, not computer networking - professional networking, the cornerstone behind personal and professional success. The same mindset for intentional networking happens to follow the same motions that you’ll find in companies with a strong culture of innovation. 

Learn about building your network, the power of micro-partnerships, and what happens when we assume technology is the hardest part, when people are in fact, the source of the biggest challenges IoT projects face.

Today our conversation is with Kurt Schmidt, a person who I met at first was a project manager, but now a President and Partner at Foundry, a digital strategy, design and development agency with offices in Minneapolis, and New York City.

Kurt is a long-time podcaster with five years of interviews with business leaders and technology leaders on the Schmidt List. Kurt is now a published author with the release of The Little Book of Networking (Available on Amazon)

Transcript

Ryan: 0:00

Welcome to conversations and conductivity. I'm Ryan Carlson, your host. This is a podcast for IOT professionals on the IOT, curious that find themselves responsible for growing executing, or educating others about what to expect when you're connecting products and services to the internet. In this interview, we're talking about conductivity of a different sort, stepping up your networking game. No, not computer networking, but professional networking, the cornerstone behind personal and professional success. It's the same mindset for intentional networking that happens to follow the same motions that you'll find in companies with a strong culture of innovation. Learn about building your network, the power of micro partnerships. And what happens when we assume technology is the hardest part. When in fact people are the source of the biggest challenges, IOT projects face. this podcast is brought to you by Soracom, a global connectivity provider that companies use to spend less on cellular data services by using less cellular data. Say goodbye to second guessing which carrier gets you the best coverage and get multi-carrier your connectivity with automatic fail over with a single SIM or eSIM.

1:07

Learn more at Soracom.io.

Ryan: 1:10

Today our conversation is with Kurt Schmidt, a person who I met at first was a project manager, but now a president and partner at Foundry, a digital strategy, design and development agency with offices in Minneapolis, and I saw New York City.

Kurt: 1:25

Yep. We opened up a small office in New York. we do a lot of work in the FinTech space, so you know, you kind of have to be in New York.

Ryan: 1:33

New York City, and there's still more peas to put to your prolific profile, which is you're also a podcaster with the Schmidt List. You've gone on five years now of having interviews with. And I'm crazy enough, a lot of people that I know. So overlapping social circles. And now you gotta add one more P, which is published author with the little book of networking now available on Amazon.

Kurt: 1:58

That's right.

Ryan: 1:59

The question that I ask a lot of people is, what is your relationship with connectivity? And I think this is a double entendre here, right? So I would love to have that opening question and turn it over to you,

Kurt: 2:13

Yeah. Thanks Ryan. I really appreciate you having me on the show. big fan. for me, connectivity, you, there's, I've learned a long time ago, there's, there's never any technical problems. It's all people problems, it's all communication problems, right? And, the same goes whether or not you're talking about tech or are you talking about humans in a lot of ways. So for me, What I noticed was back in, when the pandemic first hit and a lot of layoffs were happening, I was doing a lot of coaching of people who were looking for their next, their next line of work. And a lot of people were used to the old school way of just you. you see a job posting, you fill out a resume and you send it into the black hole, and then you hope, and pray somebody picks you, and.

Ryan: 2:56

Pick me. Pick me.

Kurt: 2:58

Yeah, exactly. You hope and pray somebody picks you. But it's not really that, and anyways, it's not a great system. So, I learned a long time ago that, the best way to get the job that you really want is through the people that you know. So, one thing I noticed when I was doing a lot of this coaching is a lot of people, just their networks were not great. either they were maybe just coming out of school or maybe they had worked for a large corporation for 20 years and just had gotten laid off. And both of those people, We're in very similar spots when it came to their network. So, I put together, a, a, a quick guide, a handbook if you will, on how to sort of really improve your networking and make it part of everything that you do instead of just a, one time event where you slap on the sticker that says, hello, my name is, and go and meet with folks and. that's been, that's been a big part of the last few years is, working on that book and, getting, and building my network too,

Ryan: 3:59

That's actually a really interesting point. I'd like to go back to just. That idea that there, there was, all of the layoffs in tech and, and I think we've all at some point been impacted, either been part of a layoff or had part of our team go away as part of a layoff. And that's always really difficult. And I think the thing that I've seen, and, and you and I have experience too, is there in, when tech had so many people, in the big clubhouse, you had the free food, you had the pets, you had the games, and you would have people that would talk about when they had the conversation with hr, when there was a reduction or or they left their social circle, their network, their friends, their after hours after school activities, their built in support network, their emotional support network. Who do you get to turn to for career advice or for, help planning that birthday thing or whatever it is? When, when all your eggs are in one basket

Kurt: 5:05

exactly.

Ryan: 5:06

network becomes very, very small and distant. So I see a lot of businesses, or startups in the technology space You get these companies where it's. Almost like these inbred groups of people. Like, oh yeah, all six of us work together at this company. And then we're gonna grab three, four, now, five, now 12 people from this other one. And tr are you really trying to live an echo chamber? And how do you validate what you've learned in your experience? Sorry, I'm, I'm kind of rambling

Kurt: 5:44

No, I love what you're saying because I addressed this specifically in the book, is that, especially as I mentioned, those people that work at a place for 20 years and then leave, they've focused a lot of their networking on internal networks. Right. So just so you were just talking about right, you're working in a, even if, even if it's a small, medium size company, you're working so closely with all these people, you're getting to know them, you're building trust with. They are your network, but then if for some reason you leave or are asked to leave, that network just kind of goes poof, just like you described. And it's not because those people don't care about you or didn't appreciate the time with you, they have to get back to to work. They don't have time or they have not made a priority. For anybody outside of the business to be a part of their network. And that is a failing in general, in my opinion, in in our, in our culture, because that's where I've learned that, companies really thrive when ideas are brought in from the outside, not just generally innovation just happening in a, in a, in a, bubble on the inside. Is that, is that if you do have that network, I think it makes you more desirable because some people say, well, I don't want, if I'm out networking, my boss is gonna think I'm looking for another job. And I was like, fine. Like, but you've gotta let them know you do it because it's part of, you building your career, it's making, your company better because you're bringing out ideas from the outside back into the organization to improve your role, which there go vis-a-vis Concord. improves, their, their, their job. So, so the networking part is really important because I found that it's not just about career development, but it's about, or I said John, about finding another job, but it's about true career development, becoming better at what you're passionate

Ryan: 7:34

Well, it's enrichment, right? Like you, you said something about a culture like networking. I've seen networking as a culture of convenience, right? Like we, we network with the people that we work with on a day basis because it's easy because we've got the water cooler and the lunch. But you know, having been part of peer groups and mentor groups and going. To these various things. you get these weird looks like, listen, if you're not in sales, like what are you doing? Going and talking to other people, right? And, and even, and even then, like when you've got the sales name tag on, people are like, oh gosh, you can smell the desperation a mile away. Old gill's gotta move this next deal. Right? Like, so my question for you is how do you, if you're in sales, or if you are seeking. To enrich your network. How do you keep the stink of desperation off of you? How, how can you as a, as a seller or even a company owner go into these situations without, turning the conversation sour?

Kurt: 8:40

I love where you're going with this, Ryan, because that, I love how you put it. How do I go into these conversations? So how do I go into these conversations is with the correct mindset. The correct mindset is I am there not to extract value, but to deliver value. So when I go to these events, I'm not there to ask people for something. I'm not there. I am there. I look at it like I am Santa, showing up with a bag full of gifts. and those gifts might be access to the people in my. My job or my company or my team that might be access to, people in my network. It could be access to our products and services, or it could be access to, even if it's a side gig that I have, maybe, they, I'm in a band and they need somebody to play at their wedding. I don't know. for me it is about a mindset of showing up of I am there to deliver value, not extract value. That doesn't mean that you're not going to go with an ask. You're, you must, you need to have an ask of some kind. because that's what too many people do is that they, you don't let people know what you're looking for. So that's breeds, distrust with folks, right? So what you should be able to do is go to these events, either as a salesperson or as just a, an individual contributor and be able to say, you. Hey, I have this, I do this. I work at this place, and I am looking for this thing. and, and then what are you looking for? And be intentional about those conversations because then people will build trust quicker because they know that, okay, this person has told me what they have to offer. And they have told me what they are looking, for themselves. Right. and it could be you're saying I'm looking for other people that work in my industry. It couldn't be, it doesn't have to be, I'm looking for a sale of some kind. So, so for me, it is a real about, it really is about a mindset and being intentional. instead of just going to be like, well, I have this role, I'm going to this event. Where other people like my role has, so I should be in that mix. that's not a great way to network.

Ryan: 10:45

I'd say this is why we always talk about in marketing that word of mouth is the best marketing there is. And this is one of those opportunities. Now I personally associate to, in the world of the tipping point, the Maven, like I love. Pull in as much information as possible. leaning into that curiosity, the, the input strengths finder, element, right? And, and like to share, who you need to talk about networking. Kir Schmidt, you should look him up on LinkedIn or Sherman, Bausch, this guy, he knows so much about X, Y, and Z. Think about you building a team. He's gonna have your answers for you. And you have these, these individuals that I, I'm not working with them right now. but it's that outside world, appeal. Now, one of the things that we talk a lot about, here on this podcast is, the, the creation of products, whether it's a connected product or whomever. I mean, the stuff you guys do at Foundry, like the, the prototype you made with the unity engine for coming up with a new, vehicle interface, by the way, super cool. What a neat little, way to, to play around in user experience design. But thing, things like that, you are trying to break new ground. you need to get feedback from people. but I don't see connected products as just a hardware device with a radio.

Kurt: 12:08

No.

Ryan: 12:09

They are digital interactions. There's artificial intelligence and machine learning engines. There's polling information from the website that it already exists. and then there's a lot of digital innovation that occurs to inform physical design.

Kurt: 12:22

Yep.

Ryan: 12:23

Like the Unity engine project that Foundry worked on, where you built that new space, age, user interface. So if you haven't seen it, you guys should check it out. Go to the, Foundry website and, and look that in the case studies area. I thought it was really neat, but I nerd out on that kind

Kurt: 12:38

thanks I, that was a cool project.

Ryan: 12:40

So when you all are living in the echo chamber, we're bringing this back to our teams. If all I'm doing is hiring people that are gonna look like me, sound like me, and use the same shorthand

Kurt: 12:49

Yes. yes.

Ryan: 12:51

I think the biggest danger in hiring is companies that are looking for people that are like them. One of us like, oh, that Kurt guy. I think we could make him into a, into our company kind of material versus what does Kurt have that we don't have where he could bring his uniqueness?

Kurt: 13:11

Well, yeah, and again, you, you look at the people who are, sometimes founders of these organizations, right? So they're either, they're either business people that, have tripped and fallen into an opportunity in a way, right? And. So they have to put together a team, and that team it's like a grocery list. You need a certain type of engineer. You need a certain type of, person that, understands, connected devices. You need, you need this type of in, you need a hardware person, you need, so you're putting together this laundry list, but you're not doing it, intentionally. where you are building, you're trying to build a culture, around these things. You're, you're trying to slot things into, into a kind of a shopping list, right? Or you're someone who's launched one of these things and you're, you're an engineer and, you, you kind of have a, you have a really understand engineering, but maybe you don't understand all the. Important pieces to things, right? That's why we see, a lot of times in iot and connected devices that user experience is not necessarily, the top, priority because a lot of times it has an engineering focus. It's here to solve an engineering problem. And if. and if it comes with a training manual, that's fine, right? even though these things should never come with a training manual, they should be that easy to use. But to an engineer, a training manual is an acceptable, sort of approach to teaching someone how to use something they've built. So again, I think it all dives back to culture and the culture of innovation. That you're creating, because that's what it is. Innovation doesn't come from brains. It comes from building a culture around innovation. Apple did not create the iPhone and, and, and, and so on and so forth, because they just hired really smart people. They created a culture that surrounded in a, in a vision of that beautiful design and solving problems for the world was what they were there to do. So to me, it really comes back to culture and being intentional in the team that you're building.

Ryan: 15:10

So I'd like you to put yourself in the role someone who's coaching a technology company founder or owner, or someone who has this great idea, and they're going to some industry events. They're gonna go some professional events, and they have two objectives. I'm gonna help with this part. The objective, number one, is they want to learn about the market that they want to sell into, right? And so clearly there's gonna be some of that product market fit, little bit of early gorilla research. So that's my first thing. That's maybe my secret goal. and the other one is looking for people that can help me know what I don't.

Kurt: 15:53

Mm-hmm.

Ryan: 15:54

What are the, what are the problems that are around the next corner that I haven't seen because I haven't built a connected product yet. Maybe I've been a metal bender, or I've built embedded circuitry and I've done some of those things, but there's these extra moving parts. So

Kurt: 16:09

Yeah.

Ryan: 16:09

there's, I'm setting the stage, I've got some of my goals. What would your recommendations be to me as I go to industry events,

Kurt: 16:16

Yeah. the, the, yeah. The thing for me is that, again, back to the networking piece, go with an intention. Go with a specific ask. Something that you can, that's repeatable, that you can ask people over and over again for. and that could be that ask. Could be, can you introduce me to more people like you right. So, so, one of the things that I see people do too often in those situations, Ryan, is they spend a lot of time and they run into that one person that seems like they really know, what they're talking about. And they're one of those types of people that you're like, this is somebody who could really help me with what I'm, I'm doing. one of the first things I think is who do you know that's like you? Not how can I, collect you like a Pokemon, right? Like, I'm just gonna collect you. I, I, I want to know, I want access to your network because you are in a space, obviously of really smart, talented people. I bet. There's other people in your network that I should be surrounding my myself with. So back to your, your point, Ryan. Like if, if I'm, if I'm out looking for opportunities to build this sort of thing, my eventual goal is to surround myself with people who have the capabilities. Of, helping me achieve that goal. And I might not be able to hire'em there in that day, but if I can start to collect them into my network and start to utilize my conversation and my relationship with them in a way that where I'm bringing them value and I can mask them questions and start to bring value, the whole idea is really to, to plant that seed and start to grow over time. So it isn't necessarily about. What can I go and extract at that moment? But it's how can I go there and plant a seed that in six to nine months is going to get me, the network that I need to help me sort of take my business to the next step or my product idea to the next step. It's not just about that one time event. That one time event is just a, a great, day for planting that.

Ryan: 18:11

I really like the question of, could you introduce me to other people that are, are similar to you? You've got some, you've got some fresh opinions. I like the cut of your jib,

Kurt: 18:19

Yes, exactly. And I would like to see the cut of other people's jibs. I, hope that's not weird, but yes,

Ryan: 18:25

Well, I mean, whatever, Simpsons, right? the question that I have is how do you avoid getting put into that zone of resistance, right? Because there are some asks that kind of put you on edge and like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, hey, I don't, I don't suppose you've got budget, timeline, and authority for, like, well,

Kurt: 18:44

by the way, and decision making power.

Ryan: 18:47

right? Right.

Kurt: 18:48

Yep. Yeah, no. To me, what's been interesting is that, because I know that at those, those event, like, well, let's talk first, go back to the events that you're talking about, conferences or things of that nature. I, I should know walking in that it, it's usually not decision makers that are at those, those events. So, but the people who are there, Our comp, our people that the company trusts enough to go out and represent them. So I should understand very clearly these are influencers in those organizations. So building relationships with the influencers can be almost. As beneficial or even more beneficial sometimes than building, building with the actual decision maker or the person who has budget approval and all the things you just mentioned. So if I could build a relationship with that influencer, they can be the person at the meeting when I can't be at the meeting saying, we should talk to Ryan about these offerings that they've. They've got, I spent, a couple hours with them and we've been emailing back and forth for the last month, about this and that and the other thing. And he's provided me with a lot of resources and a lot of information. but they also do this thing. We should have them, Come along for the ride. So again, I'm there to build trust and build a relationship over time. Right, and and that's the key point is I'm trying to build a relationship. Because if you look at it like I have the colleagues that I work with and I have. Friends, like, these are people I invite to my wedding, and these are people that I spend, eight hours, 10 hours a day with, in work. In the middle is this gray area. And, we try to make sure that these things don't touch too much, right? Like every once in a while people transition. Right. but in this gray area, what we have is what I like to call micro partnerships that you establish with people. The goal is, is that just like JFK said, is that a rising tide? Lifts all boats, right? So in this gray area, what we want to do is build micro partnerships that says, Hey, Ryan, you and I just met at this thing. I do this thing, I have this offering, that could make you look really good in your, in your organization. If you were to bring me in to do some of that stuff. And you're like, man, yeah. Our team is not pulling their weight. And I could really, I could, I could look really good. Bold a team that was awesome like this, but I don't know if they're that awesome. I don't really trust them. And I'm looking at you going, well, but I don't know if you'd really bring me in or whatever. But why don't we, build that micro partnership and learn from each other over time, whether that's a possibility or not, and do it intentionally, right? Is that we are intentionally, we like each other. We got a good vibe, right? Let's try to find a way to work together. It might not be today, it might not be three years from now, but it will. It probably will be someday.

Ryan: 21:34

Isn't that funny though? How often the person you're talking to today is some senior vice president

Kurt: 21:43

Oh, sure.

Ryan: 21:44

tomorrow? Right.

Kurt: 21:46

that, Ryan. And that's why you need to maintain your network over time. It's not just about. that one networking event or that one conference, we need to be intentional about maintaining our network over time. So how do we maintain our network? Well, we stay in touch with people to find out, have your asks changed? Have your needs changed? Have, have the va has the value that I can bring you changed? Do I have a new certification? Do I have a new. Client that needs this type of work or these other things. We like each other. We wanna work together. We think we're both smart and we, it'd be great to help each other out. So how do we do that? Well, we gotta stay top of mind with people, and that's where social media, things like LinkedIn and other ways to stay connected with people. That's what those things are for in my mind. They're not for, anything other than, staying top of mind with folks, reminding people that you're out there under the value that you bring.

Ryan: 22:40

So understanding that people are bad computers, we can't stack too many commands all at

Kurt: 22:44

Yeah. Yes.

Ryan: 22:45

If I were someone who wanted to start making some. Micro partnerships, but taking several baby steps. What would your recommendations as a coach, what would three baby steps be? Step one, two, and three?

Kurt: 23:00

Yeah, that's, thank you Ryan, for asking that because, what I, what I've, what I've done in terms of baby steps, and I describe it in the book, is I have a simple spreadsheet where I put a list of names and, no more than five or 10 people, that maybe are in my, my network and that I feel. are genuinely people I can learn from people who are going somewhere, people who have something to offer and that I also feel, a kinship with. And I get the same sort of reciprocal feeling when I'm speaking with them that they, they also get value in talking. with me or else they're just very good at pretending that they do. so I put them in a list and then I'm, I put in another column. I put, the date that I last connected with them, and then I put a formula in that column that says, at 60 days this turns yellow, and at 90 days it turns red. And so, with that list. I just constantly have that reminder that tells me, Hey, it's been 90 days you haven't checked in with, with Ryan, for a while. And so I might shoot a quick note. Hey, just checking in Ryan, to seeing how you're doing. I'm still looking for this. Are you still looking for that? We should get coffee sometime. It'd be great. and then I go down that list. I make sure that I keep updated with all of those people. And then over time I might build that list out. I. Have subsections to that list. And so for me it's really just about having a simple system that reminds you that you should check in with this person. This is the value that, um, that they can bring to you. and you already should know what value, so you shouldn't lead, need to list your own value, but you can list up kind of what they're looking for and then a simple date and just stay top of mind with those people. And that's the simplest way to get started.

Ryan: 24:47

I think I need put my mom on that list. Just a reminder, but, but it's not like, like, 90 days, but. Ha has, has, has a month gone by? Have I checked in on her? How's it going, mom?

Kurt: 25:00

Been a month already.

Ryan: 25:01

Yeah, yeah. Maybe even dialed it in, set some goals. Right. So that's just another category,

Kurt: 25:07

yeah, there's another call where I try to explain what I do for a living, but it's not working. I don't know why.

Ryan: 25:14

So baby, step one sounds like create a list. Step two is categorize it and set some thresholds for keeping up. Is there, is there kinda like a last, now that you've got the list, now that you have got the commitment or at least a system for keeping things warm, then what? What's the that next step?

Kurt: 25:35

Yeah. The next step for me is actually a personal journey I've got this sort of group that I really want to deliver value to. What can I do personally to start improving on the value that I can bring? to these individuals, right? So I look at myself as sort of an army of one here, right? I am not, I am not my company. I am not my employer. my career is about, where I want to go and what legacy I want to lead. So leave so. For me, it's really about, now that I've got this sort of goal, like obviously if you work in, hardware, iot, there's lots of certifications or different things you can, you can go for to get better at that. But if you want to become a leader in that group, or maybe you've met some other people who are vice presidents or people who work in marketing or these other areas of the business that are very attractive to you, and you're starting to network from them and learn from them, now is the time Holding up the mirror and saying, what can I do to improve my value that I'm bringing to my network? And start to work on that over time versus what has my company told me that is a value for them. Right? now I've got a good sense of what is happening in the outside world. I already understand what's happening at my company. it's pretty clear. that you know what to bring value to that company might be right. And if it's not clear and if it's just, take less vacation, is bringing value to them, then your network's even more important, isn't it?

Ryan: 27:03

It sure is. You know that. That reminds me of the value of having customer conversations in a workplace environment. Like I find myself, it's not about winning an argument, it's never about being right. But to, instead of speaking from a personal opinion, well, I think that this is the way, this, the way it is, it's of the last seven technical onboarding calls that I listened to, the recordings, people said this, six out of seven times. It's kind of hard to argue with that. Right? And I think the same thing is when, when there's peer groups, right? Like, yeah, I went to this thing, and of the 10 CMOs that I spoke with, eight of them all mentioned this is a common thing right now that we're all struggling with. It's like, okay, so it's not just my opinion, Opinions and assholes, we all got them

Kurt: 27:56

Right.

Ryan: 27:56

All right.

Kurt: 27:57

Well, but that's the point there, Ryan. That's what I'm trying to get across to people, is that yes, there are events, there are groups, there are user groups, there's online clubs and, and things and things that you can, you can join. But why wait for someone to create one that's tailored for Ryan? Why can't you just create your own? And again, like I said, these are micro partnerships, so this shouldn't impact, you know? Cause I have people that say like, well, I can't do networking like that. I have, I have a family. I'm like, you, you just are not prioritizing stuff. I know you're, you're, you're binging, the last of us, like, just take a break from it for a little bit and. work on your spreadsheet, make sure it's updated. Check on somebody on LinkedIn. Have they changed jobs lately? send them a quick message. You've got time to do this type of, building of these micro partnerships. don't be lazy and wait for some group to show up and say, well, this is a leadership group that you can join for only, a thousand dollars a month. And now you can have access to peer groups like I. I'll just create my own. Why do I need that?

Ryan: 28:59

Right. That, that's absolutely right. And I know this is the farthest from technology, but it has everything to professional development and living and everything. I made a, it wasn't an oath. That's a little bit strong, a concerted effort to stop saying the word busy.

Kurt: 29:17

Hmm? Yes.

Ryan: 29:18

People say, oh, how's it been been? like, I haven't heard from you in a long while. Or, have you happened to do X, Y, Z? Did you see X, Y, Z movie? Rather than like, oh, oh gosh, I've been so busy. I've even typed it out, and then I back it up and I go, I did not prioritize seeing that. Right? There's a big difference,

Kurt: 29:39

huh?

Ryan: 29:40

Like we all have time to do whatever the heck we want,

Kurt: 29:43

Yes,

Ryan: 29:44

so being too busy, Isn't the problem.

Kurt: 29:48

And, and again, it, it see that and what you're talking about, there is a mindset, Ryan, and, and, and that's what's important in, in networking. But it's also important in innovation because if you think you know the answer, you're probably wrong. But some of the best innovators I know know that they know nothing. Right. and so I can't just walk around not knowing anything and be an innovator, right? But the, the, I, I don't remember who said this, but it, if, if you'd ever ship anything, are you an innovator? No, I mean, you haven't innovated anything, so you've gotta ship if you're gonna be an innovator, right? So, if you can do that by yourself, God's speed. Like, great. But it's pretty rare in, especially in the complex systems world that you and I both live in, where you can do that on your own. In order to be an innovator, you need to have the ability to rally people, to build a team, to build a network, and to rally people around an idea. And that idea, again, like I said, could be, your career. It could be a product, right? But it's a skillset you learn over time.

Ryan: 30:58

We've brought this all full circle about, wanting to get all the information and need to get things across the finish line. And we started with, connectivity with technology and, and you and I both agree that. 99% of the time, it's never a technology problem. The reason why products struggle, or teams have challenges, or we don't quite ship the project or whatever it is, it's their people problems. It could be access to information. They don't have a big enough network. we've lived in our own microcosm for so long, we didn't know that the rest of the world moved on, and technology did solve this problem. So in regards to your role, having been working with entrepreneurs solar and even large companies that are solving complex technology problems, specifically in that connected space with connectivity, if I could get you to reflect for one moment, if you had all five infinity stones could snap your finger and make one thing change about connectivity. That would make life easier for everyone.

Kurt: 32:04

Hmm,

Ryan: 32:05

What just happened after that Snap?

Kurt: 32:08

Hmm. It's that people, tried to solve the problem for the end user before they tried to solve the problem for the company.

Ryan: 32:17

Which company?

Kurt: 32:18

any company

Ryan: 32:20

So is this the, they didn't think through what the business needed versus the user.

Kurt: 32:26

Yeah, they thought through what the, business opportunity was and not the problem they were solving for the end user, for the customer.

Ryan: 32:34

I love it. I always.

Kurt: 32:35

so that's what happens too often is that these, and these organizations think they're so smart, right? But you and I both know, no product survives its first impact with a customer. But sometimes ego drives a lot of, stuff when it comes to innovation and engineering and design. Is that I know better than the customers, right? I know what Henry Ford said, which he actually didn't say, which was, if I would've asked them what they wanted, they would've said faster horses, right? And so he built a car, and so a lot of, entrepreneurs might have that idea of like, I will, I will come to the masses and I will help them understand. You're right. I'm Elon Musk and I know what Twitter really needs and stuff. It's all ego stuff. There's no experience. There's no. there's no data there, there's no metrics there. Nobody's spoken to an actual customer. and that's really, like I said, the real problem is that the best products are products that solve a problem first, and that then however they're implemented, technology or whatever, or strings or, hooks that can hang my, Christmas lights specifically on my type of gutters. the, however the, the solution is that's secondary.

Ryan: 33:46

Yeah. Cause the customer is both a buyer and a user and they're rarely the same person.

Kurt: 33:52

Yes. Yes, exactly right. I remember working on some iot projects specifically. For, for refrigeration, needs. Right. and, and a lot of the things that people were thinking about was, in all the conversations I was in, they were always thinking about what data did they need? What data did they need, and what data did they need to capture? And, and not once in the conversation were they thinking the customer would actually use the device that. in order to get them the data that they needed. they just assumed like, well, I'll just, I'll just tell them they have to have this device. It's like, what benefit is there for them to use the device? They, you all, the benefit is for you to build, to gather this data. Like nobody's gonna just, start using a device because you need it.

Ryan: 34:39

Right? Yeah. That, that, that, that is, I was fascinating, right? Like I immediately start going like, oh, refrigeration. So at what point are you legally obligated to throw food away

Kurt: 34:49

Yeah. Right. Yep,

Ryan: 34:52

long of a period of time was that and what temperature?

Kurt: 34:55

yep. Exactly. But again, if, if, if I don't provide a solution, whether it be the trucking company or the actual, a long hauler or whoever has to actually manipulate in order to make that correct. If there's no value to it, to them, why would they use it? And then your data's gonna be bad anyways. So in my mind, yes, you do have that end problem of like, we need to understand, how long these pizzas can be, in this truck, at a certain temperature or something. But if, if the trucker isn't, running the equipment in a way that provides that data, Then it's all moot. Right? And I've seen it over and over again. Ryan, I can't tell you how many times people have thought they were so smart and they were gonna capture all this data. we worked with a, an, an agriculture ag tech company and they were like, yeah, well all these people in the field will have these tablets now, and they'll put in this stuff and then we'll have all this data. And then they were like, nobody's putting the stuff in. Why is this working? And they were all up in arms. And they had actually hired us to come in and do an audit, or an assessment of what was, what was, what was going on. And we went out and we found that, nobody had gone out and actually talked to the, the people that were working the fields because, 80% of them English was not their first language. So all the buttons, to do things, had English words. That immediately needed to be changed to iconography, right? Instead of words. the next thing was is they're out in the sun. And the way that the screens were built were all gray, so there's not enough high contrast for them to even see what they're looking at. So they spent all this money and all this time, but never actually put it in the hands of the people that will use it and then watch them try and use it. They just were so smart and so intelligent that they were gonna solve this problem for the farmer. They were gonna provide this thing and they were promised the farmer was gonna do this thing, but the people couldn't even use it. So that's my point, Ryan, about why, the idea of, connectivity and going out and building relationships with folks is not just about networking to build our career. It's about also how to change. how the world works.

Ryan: 37:02

Yeah, Y you're not wrong. It's not just the users and the buyers, but who are the beneficiaries for the buyer? Like what is it? Who benefits when we buy this thing? And then who are the influencers for the users? Right. The supervisor or the installer, or the person who has to pick up the phone. Well, they're not the one actually, actually touching the thing,

Kurt: 37:23

Yep. Yep, yep. And, and you, you, I know you worked with an organization, there was fleet management and all these things, but you know, like I said, very rarely did people talk to, the people that actually were in the machines. Doing, doing the work. it was just about pulling in cold data so I can find ways to make squeeze more efficiency out of things instead of trying to

Ryan: 37:46

optimize the insights, optimize the insights,

Kurt: 37:49

Yep. Exactly. And

Ryan: 37:50

and optimize.

Kurt: 37:52

And so that's why I see so many startups fail in their first, their first outing is because, they've found a problem. They, they think they understand what the user needs, and then they go out and try to solve that problem. Now, one of the terrible reasons that I've seen people make that choice, Ryan, is because, they don't want their secret awesome idea to get out. So they can't go and tell people and talk to people about their idea. So they've gotta keep it, they've gotta keep it hidden. I remember, getting a call from a, a senior level decision maker. And saying, you want to come out, sign this nda, cause I want to talk to you about this idea. And we were like, cool. Okay. And they went on to describe this thing and I was like, that's already, that's already a, it's already a thing and here I could show you this. And they were like, oh, okay. Well I was like, didn't you do any research? Like, well, I didn't want to put that into Google cuz then that's where they could steal your ideas. And I was like, oh. I see. So, I, I forgot my tinfoil hat is what I forgot. I see. So it, I'm telling you like true truth is strange and unfiction, right? So, you if, you need to get your ideas out there and get'em in the hands of people that it's actually going to impact and benefit. if you can do that, you can build a business around anything.

Ryan: 39:11

And make sure you got a couple small micro partnerships on the side of people who are exposed to lots of things, so you

Kurt: 39:17

That's right.

Ryan: 39:17

run it, run it by them beforehand.

Kurt: 39:19

yep,

Ryan: 39:21

Well, Kurt, thank you so much for taking time to talk about networking connecting people, connecting ideas, and then connecting the things behind the people is ultimately what we're all trying to do. And I, and I know that the future is bright for technology. It ain't going away. Data use is only going up, but. Ubiquitous nature of technology, it shrinking into the background and being invisible is now the gold standard, right? Don't make anyone think the best data collection is the one that no one is actively trying to do, and it just happens as the course of doing whatever job you are already planning on doing, right?

Kurt: 40:01

Yep.

Ryan: 40:02

So how could people learn more about you and your point of view?

Kurt: 40:08

Yeah. So, I'm most active on LinkedIn, so if you go and search for Kurt Schmidt, you can find me pretty, pretty easily there. my company is called Foundry. it's it's foundry makes.com. So cuz we make stuff right, so foundry makes.com and, and the book is, the little book of networking. So it's, you can just search on Amazon or Google and I'll get you, get you there. And, yeah, I'm really excited about it. So yeah, if people want to connect with me, find me on LinkedIn.

Ryan: 40:34

Kirk, thank you for your time.

Kurt: 40:36

Thank you so much, Ryan. I really big fan, and I appreciate you giving me this opportunity to speak to your audience.

Ryan: 40:42

Absolutely. You're part of my micro partnerships, so I'm gonna have to change that red to green in the spreadsheet that I'll be creating shortly. All right. Thank you. I think I need put my mom on that list. Ha has, has, has a month gone by? Have I checked in on her? How's it going, mom?

Kurt: 41:03

Been a month already.

41:04

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