RTLS at Scale: Bluetooth, Multi-Tech Asset Tracking, and Cellular Deployments

RTLS at Scale: Lamplight Logistics on Bluetooth, Multi-Tech Asset Tracking, and Cellular Deployments

Ryan interviews Kurt Nehrenz, CEO and co-founder of Lamplight Logistics, about RTLS (real time location systems) for tracking assets, people, or machines across outdoor GNSS and centimeter-accurate indoor environments. Kurt explains that Bluetooth’s widespread adoption has reduced tag costs enough to track tens of thousands to millions of assets, including single-use stickers, while UWB, 5G, and AI/ML make large-scale data practical. Lamplight takes a software-first, “no silver bullet” approach, choosing among RFID, Bluetooth, UWB, and cameras based on accuracy, update frequency, and asset value, then unifying data streams into business outcomes. Automotive returnable containers are highlighted as a key use case to prevent loss and diagnose supply-chain bottlenecks. Success depends on integrating into systems like SAP/ERP, iterative discovery with stakeholders, and cellular “plug-and-play” gateways via Soracom for simpler deployment, predictable cost, security controls, and remote debugging; Cassia Bluetooth gateways enable long range, remote management, and tag commands like blinking for identification.

00:00 Meet Lamplight CEO
00:34 RTLS Explained Fast
01:38 Why RTLS Scales Now
03:14 Choosing the Right Tech
05:29 Cameras and Validation
06:36 Software First Strategy
07:18 Automotive Returnables ROI
09:53 Beyond Dashboards to ERP
12:17 Discovery and Iteration
16:57 Cellular as Deployment Hack
18:55 Bluetooth Gateways at Scale
20:46 Remote Debug and Find My
23:36 Soracom Trust and APIs
25:10 Locking Down Connectivity
27:50 Wrap Up and Contact Info
29:26 No More Dark Spots

Transcript

Podcast Interview with Kurt Nehrenz, Lamplight Logistics

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): We're here for what to expect when you're connecting with Kurt Nehrenz, the CEO, and the co-founder of Lamplight Logistics. I'd like to hear more about RTLS, which is a bit of a niche acronym, maybe you could explain that one in one sentence.

Kurt: The acronym first real time location systems. You can think of it kind of like an Apple tag, an iot battery powered device. That's primary function is location, whether that's, large scale outdoor, GNSS style, location, down to very micro precision, centimeter, accurate indoor location, and in between. The idea is that you've got your blue dot experience for a thing that you care about,

Wherever it travels in its lifecycle, whether that's an asset or a person or a machine or, anything you care to track.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): We're talking about technology that has considerably even over the 20 years that asset tracking has been around. It comes in any variety of different flavors from RFID tags to Bluetooth beacons, to any variety of other means of tracking an asset wirelessly or visually. Tell me what's changed in the last, maybe five to 10 years that's made RTLS practical at scale with

Kurt: Sure.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): these newer technologies.

Kurt: I think the main driver as far as adoption is concerned has been the propagation of Bluetooth just generally, and that goes back even further than five to 10 years ago.

But their success has really driven people to embrace it. And almost every device that comes out now has got some level of Bluetooth, but it's not just how we're connecting our headphones to our computer anymore.

A very simple application of, modern Bluetooth is an asset tag. It's just a long life reliable transmitter that can go anywhere in the globe under the same, specification. And because of how much Bluetooth has been adopted, it's driven the price of these devices down, to a palatable number where folks are comfortable tagging.

Tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, even millions of assets with Bluetooth devices, including, single use stickers, which is, really starting to take off and encroaching on what, RFID stickers were traditionally used for just with, more functionality. So that's a big one. Emerging technologies, like ultra wideband, modern 5G.

And then obviously. The ability to consume process and make use out of billions of data points with the emergence of, a lot of machine learning and ai. Those things have all come together at the same time. And people are starting to realize that they can afford not to have any dark spots at any time of the stuff that they care about.

And that's the momentum that's building.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): I think what's fascinating about what you're doing at Lamplight is that there's the no silver bullet approach. You have the recognition that there's all these different areas in which you could have blind spots in tracking of an asset, but there is no best one technology. To rule them all.

Kurt: No.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): so maybe you could walk me through some of the most simple options to some of the more complex options

Kurt: Sure. You 

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): use in the implementations for tracking assets.

Kurt: That's a hundred percent true. And there's always a commercial balance. How often do you need to see your thing or know about where it is? How accurate does that need to be? And, how valuable is the thing that I'm putting this tracker on? I guess a simple example would be, I have consumables and I'm willing to put a, 25 cent RFID sticker on it.

That's more like a retail approach. I might RFID tag, millions of things that are spreading across facilities. And because of the cost of the tag that drives my decision. It has limited accuracy capabilities typically. So maybe, I'll jump up to a Bluetooth slash RFID combo where maybe I put Bluetooth on a thing that, carries the things and then associate a Bluetooth position with the RFID tags that are in range.

Or maybe there fully separate. Like I've got a batch of things that I wanna track with RFID. I've got a batch of things that Bluetooth proximity is great for. I've got a batch of things where I need to know specifically when it crosses a line. And maybe ultra wideband is good for that. Sometimes you can combine those technologies into a single housing, a single tag.

But often what you need is a piece of software that can interpret all of those different streams of data, make sense of their associations. What rules need to be applied in which conditions and which technology streams trigger those conditions, to get a business outcome.

At the end, our opinion is that in practice, people out on the field don't care about what tech is being used to get to the outcome. In fact, they shouldn't. It should just be if it's effective. It's just something that's part of day-to-day workflow. And that's what we, challenge ourselves to do is merge these things together.

To produce an outcome. Cameras obviously play a big part in this too.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): I see cameras, like machine vision or security cameras. Even some of the webcam technology that we've experimented with. At, Soracom, where it's, you're just grabbing images, throwing it against an AI model to validate. It's like a trust and verify thing. Like you've got the sensors on the ground that are reading things, but sometimes that sensor is only evaluating, pressure, barometric pressure, humidity, vibration. But it's not looking for, motion outside of the thing. It's monitoring and oh, there's a forklift that drives by this pallet or this device every so often and it's throwing all the numbers off,

Kurt: And another common one in double validation. Most people entering a job site have got their swipe card right, and that's digitally the trace that you entered at this time and left at this time. But there's very little stopping. One guy carrying six badges for his buddies, swiping in and out.

So it's helpful to have one. approach. It's helpful to have cameras, but it's really the combination of the two, that gets you to the end result you're looking for.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): So I know that Lamplight, you guys are more of a software first approach where you put your. The TLC goes into the software, and then you just pick the hardware as needed, right? You're balancing economics, quantity, quality, fidelity, looking at all of the different factors in that use case. Balancing it against how accurate or what is the fidelity of data necessary? Are we tracking a $10,000 heart valve replacement device that's in an expensive, reusable Faraday cage, that goes between hospitals and med suppliers? Or is it, a big crate of toilet paper?

Kurt: Correct.

That's right. That's right.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): One of the things that I find fascinating is there was a use case when we initially spoke, you talked about the automotive industry their pallets are not the same pallets that what we about when we think about, that piece of wood slab or the plastic injection molded flat piece that any forklift can come grab. Talk to me about the economics

Kurt: Sure.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): you've been dealing with in automotive and asset tracking.

Kurt: Yeah. Just to explain the setup here a little bit, it's common in manufacturing. Automotive strongly embraces this, but in manufacturing in general, to custom design, pallets to hold a very particular part. In a certain way. So it's molded or constructed to hold a fender or a drive train handlebars or whatever.

And the idea is that goes from the handlebar supplier to my manufacturing facility and then we send it back, and then they send the next one in the same pallet. So you buy it once and use it hundreds of times or throughout the life of the production of the vehicle, basically. The reason they do that is because in the long run, even in the short run, that's cheaper than buying tons of standard pallets.

It keeps them safer, keeps them greener. It's being massively adopted across the globe. The using returnable containers. The problem is, as soon as you invest in those, you wanna make sure that they stay in cycle, that you don't lose them. And believe it or not, people lose them all the time.

So make a capital investment in these fancy pallets or, sequence racks or things like that. And then the utility goes away very quickly because they can't necessarily keep track of them. So that's what we aim to solve. And there are a lot of knock on benefits too, as the, returnable containers are carrying apart and you can track their cycle time.

It's a direct analog for how healthy is that supplier or how healthy is my supply chain and what's causing bottlenecks. And it's a diagnosis tool, beyond just protect my capital investment.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): So what you're saying is you are able to monitor in motion and products at rest. And then identify where not just end points are, but where stoppage points or slowdowns might be, oh, it's sitting at this distribution center for seven days, when really we are anticipating three at most,

Kurt: Or I have a fleet of, 13,000 of these pallets, but I've only seen half of them cycle through the supply chain in the last month. So why

Is that occurring? That kind of thing.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): Going from just the ability to pick the right hardware to track these different types of assets, whether it's construction companies, automotive harnesses, pharmaceutical containers, moving things where there might be cold chain represented, right?

Again, this is all just sensing in various degrees. What does success look like beyond the dashboards? What are the things that you really think you need to get it right? Because you were doing this for 12 years before starting

Kurt: That's right.

Honestly, success is far beyond the dashboard. The dashboard's a nice touch point. If you log in and have a look at a screen and yeah, here's all my stuff and here's some, stats. Here's performance over the last week. Very useful, but it's truly integration with other business systems.

And making, interaction with the data that we're producing very easy at the field level, that drives adoption and creates the most ROI. So I want, for example, I have SAP, I have all of my parts and pieces and manufacturing flow. That's the go-to system for everybody in the organization. Most of those.

Had a field for current location, for example. So we do things like fill out that field as things are moving. So we want people to use the systems that they're using daily and, just hydrate that with more useful data, make their current business systems, more effective. That's a main goal.

Again, for somebody on the manufacturing floor, for example, to say, hey, I've run out of transmissions. Where are they? Where are these things now? Or. A shipment has arrived. You've now got 50 transmissions at the loading dock. Those sorts of human, interactions with the system or what we aim to do beyond the millions of data points and looking at a map and how cool is this with all the pens, that kind of thing.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): What I'm hearing and what I know to be truly magical in like the business sense is going from yet one more thing that I need to log into, one more portal, one more platform to instead having something that, as you already mentioned. like going in and changing a field state in an existing piece of software or updating an ERP, in transit, delivered, whatever that might be. Talk to me about the work that Lamplight has to do a discovery and implementation perspective to get that right.

Kurt: Have as many conversations as possible, honestly, especially when you go into an enterprise environment, there's always an initial kickoff. There's a reason why you're talking to begin with. But you've gotta identify the pain point firstly, and that's what we do very well. Dig as deep as possible to identify the pain point, and then pick the right tech stack to solve that.

At the same time, try to educate them on the bigger picture and get them talking internally about, Hey man, wouldn't it be great if you knew where these things were? Or, Hey, how could we use it that way? And then the idea is quickly bubble over. Once you've got an infrastructure in place to solve one use case, dozens fall out after that, once people start to embrace the power of it.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): So back in my iot consulting days, we would go in with the premise saying we're gonna build a connected solution, but there is no interface. wanna map out all your existing systems. how does this connected solution. Impact all of these various, sometimes hundreds or even thousands of small little micro decisions or manual steps. How can we eliminate those? And I remember killing crates worth of. Colored post-it notes a year going into a room with stakeholders from support, from operations, the loading dock, then filling these walls of okay, what happens when you go here? And then what's your process for capturing all of these, steps?

Do you rely on the end customer having a team of operations folks that brings it all to the table? What have you found to be successful for you, how do customers prepare themselves to have that conversation?

Kurt: I think it varies, company to company and even, like facility to facility within a company. I think you have to act like a, vacuum at the beginning and just have as many conversations with as many people as possible. And then you can start to connect the crossover. But then you have to be willing to be iterative as well.

So once you go in the first time, once use cases are established, once there's proper engagement, you have to be willing to. Not necessarily pivot in some cases pivot, but change priority. And we try to be as malleable as possible to say, okay, you said you wanted to do this and this was the priority.

We'll keep doing that, but you've brought a new thing to me. Let's solve that one. And how can we do that, more effectively? What it comes down to is making sure that even the quote sexy ideas have got a real ROI behind them. 'Cause you can spend a lot of time doing something super cool really well educated user in a particular department wants.

But you constantly have to check that against what's the , financial impact for the business and make sure that you can balance those things. It's not easy. I don't know that we've got a, step one through 10 process. I think it's mostly just listening as much as possible, throughout the journey.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): I'm always surprised in these types of discovery. Situations where it's a comment that's made over the lunch break like the, you know, warehouse supervisor or just so it's just some offhand comment. Yeah. It's kind of like when Bill does that thing with the whatever, and you're like, stop.

What, what was that? Yeah, it, it's just crazy, so how many times do you. Go into the conversation where people are assuming you're there to solve one problem. When you really go, actually not the real problem we're here to solve. If we can do this upstream thing, what you're talking about goes away.

I.

Kurt: common and I think it goes both directions too. We'll come in and they've told us that there's a problem we need to solve. And then for most people, there's like an aha moment. And, what we wanna do is get people. For 30 minutes, just thinking through the implications of what does it mean if I can have real time awareness of my things.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): Yeah.

Kurt: And you'd be surprised, as you said, what sort of things come out unexpectedly.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): So since connected products are rarely solving a technology problem, they're solving people problems. By sometimes making the people problem invisible, something automatically happens. Creating awareness that there wasn't any or certainty at sometimes, right? I don't trust that people are doing their job well.

Now there's a green light which says everything's on time. What are some of the biggest blockers in a deployment, and why is cellular connectivity a cheat code for you?

Kurt: I'd say from a cellular connectivity pro, it gets by. A lot of IT headaches. I think that's the best way to put it. What we wanna do is make things as plug and play as possible. So our goal is essentially minimal, effort required from either our customer or our customer suppliers, or anybody that has to get some infrastructure installed.

We want to ship some gateways and say. Please plug these in. Game done. And that speeds everything up and it relieves headache. A lot of times folks don't wanna deal with their own IT departments, much less us dealing with their IT departments. So if we can make that process as simple as possible, that's a big win.

And, Soracom Cellular. Has been a perfect way to do that. It's, open box, plug in, put your tags on a thing, here's your login, off and running. That smooths out everything

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): It's wild when you don't have to think about, well , where is this facility located? Which carrier has got the best coverage in here when it just connects to the best carrier

Kurt: exactly.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): the, best carrier for the job.

Kurt: which is super, super important. 

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): For cold chain supply chain, that's a huge one. Getting off a plane with a perishable thing of like pharmaceutical components or actual, finished goods.

Kurt: yep,

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): that right now? 

Kurt: Relatively speaking, for iot deployments, like we're doing,

We're not streaming HD video. So the bandwidths are fairly low. It's not like you're paying a cell phone bill for every single gateway that goes out there. Grouped billing and low bandwidth, it wins in just many ways.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): One of the hardware solutions you use is one I've actually been a huge fan of is, the folks at Cassia Technologies, they put together a Bluetooth gateway. It's first of its kind just like a router would be used for a bunch of wifi devices. It's a router for Bluetooth tags, for enterprise level deployments.

What's your experience been deploying something like that to use that ubiquitous Bluetooth tag.

Kurt: I started off talking about the, proliferation of Bluetooth and, Cassia is a good example of why that's working. They have some incredible products, from an RF perspective. They're doing things that others are not. To get extraordinary range. People think of Bluetooth as a short range tech technology, between 10 and 50 feet.

We've seen, a kilometer or more out of a single Bluetooth gateway. So it opens up a whole new avenue. It changes people's minds about what's possible, and beyond just the quality of their devices, they're on the cutting edge of. The Bluetooth standard. So you're getting into things that are, forthcoming in the Bluetooth world for, micro location and all sorts of other, neat RF tricks that they're on top of.

And what they're really good at is what we call network or device management. So once you've deployed hundreds or thousands of Bluetooth gateways out in the real world. What happens if you need to change a setting on one of these things? Or, run a little app that does something new rather than putting somebody on a plane to go out there and deploy that, or calling somebody's IT staff.

Their remote management console is top notch and we really rely on it. They're the best out there as far as I'm concerned, from a hardware and the reality of Bluetooth and where massive, Bluetooth iot is heading. 

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): I know that's actually a cool application is the idea to remotely troubleshoot things. One, not being on IT's network means that you've got a bit more control to remotely support something. And I've seen a couple applications that will leverage something like Cassia, where you can remotely do device management for those Bluetooth devices, but sometimes you need to get to the. Bluetooth routing device, itself. And like with Soracom, we've got the, on demand remote access right through the SIM. So you can go in, open a port for, like I only want to open for four hours, maxes out at something like eight hours and you can open an SSH session and remote in just as if you were plugging right into that device.

Opens up the port. now you're right there. You can use command line, run diagnostics, do a remote packet capture, on demand as well, and isolate that and get your pcap file and throw it into a wire shark and diagnosis coming off of that, like it's so cool and you never have to send a technician out.

Kurt: Game changing. No doubt about it.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): And then Cassia lets you look at all of the network traffic for all those Bluetooth devices that are talking between one another and,

Kurt: that's right.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): that all out to the

Kurt: And even connect to those Bluetooth devices and tell a tag to do something. So for example. The, lamplight system tells me that this thing that I care about is over in this area over here.

But I've got a hundred of those over there. So which one is it?

So via the Cassia interface, our software can say. Tell tag 1, 2, 3 to start blinking. And so we do that over the internet through Soracom into the Cassia

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): find my.

Kurt: which connects to the Bluetooth device and says, start blinking. And that's end to end. That's everything you could ever need.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): Isn't that wild though? That's exactly what Apple did with the latest generation of AirPods. Like they actually put a speaker on the little case because that's what happens, right? Like where, where'd it

Kurt: Yep.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): So the idea that Bluetooth can go out and then push a command down to the device, it's kinda like that same idea and. Normally it's more of a proprietary action. And so knowing that Cassia can natively support something like that, and you can pick whichever Bluetooth hardware stack you need, and with the ubiquity, the cost can be insanely low.

Kurt: Exactly.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): some of the most exciting things. You can finally go beyond RFID and NFC and look at something that's got a little bit more of a robust ability to actually communicate

Kurt: Yep, exactly right.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): transmit.

Kurt: Exactly, and obviously RFID and NFC play a role. But to me, Bluetooth is beginning to fulfill, the promise that everybody imagined for, radio frequency identification,

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): Yeah.

Kurt, what is Soracom you?

Kurt: Soracom to us establishes trust. I feel comfortable when I, have UPS pick up a giant box of gateways and ship them to God knows where. Knowing that as soon as they get plugged in. If they're in the right place, the wrong place, as long as they can see the sky somewhere, it's gonna work.

We've got predictable cost base, tools within the platform to make sure we don't blow out our budget. And then as you mentioned earlier, the remote debugging tools are critical. So to me, Soracom means, trusted connection, which without it, our stuff doesn't work. That's what I set out to find.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): Does Lamplight leverage the APIs

Kurt: We do,

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): status into your

Kurt: Not as strongly yet as some of the things that are still in our backlog, but that is a main focus of ours is to pull things like data management, usage alerts, billing alerts, that sort of stuff into our platform, for an admin user, of our system, to keep track of those sorts of things.

The alerting for sure is critical. We have seen, cases where somebody on site, gets bored. Finds a wifi ap that's got a sim in it and starts streaming Netflix, for example. We wanna be notified of that kind of thing right away. And we want that to happen on our platform rather than just, an email being sent to somebody or requiring somebody to log in, and check that stuff manually. We want that embedded in our system.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): for sure. So is it you find that people are connecting to the AP or with the sim that's in it

Kurt: Yes.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): The bandwidth, 

Kurt: basically, not so much with Cassia devices because you can, restrict a lot of that.

We've had that happen in the past with, cellular backhaul aps that are there for an iot application, but then some smart guy on site figures out that it's there and,

connects to the internet.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): If you've got an application where you feel that's a issue and it's not something that the IMEI lock can solve, which locks the sim to that gateway, you can also take advantage of a virtual private gateway where you have complete control over all of the routing. So if it's from you to your application, does your application on customer servers or is it deployed in like AWS or

Those lines?

Kurt: AWS is our primary cloud supplier. But we support on-prem as well. Usually cellular's not as involved in an on-prem application unless it's private LTE. But.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): One of the things you could do is if you're already in AWS and you're probably using a virtual private cloud instance of your own, you could set up VPC peering since Soracom is fully hosted, on AWS infrastructure Within A VPC architecture, you could turn off public internet altogether and so that device would go from there to Soracom to you and have zero access. Or if there is a need to make, external calls, you could also set up a white list. So you could actually just say, these are the only domains or outside endpoints that this sim is allowed to talk to. Everything else. Nope. That's something worth looking

Kurt: Yeah, it is for sure.

,

Kurt: Being able to control that dynamically, remotely as well is key. 'cause there's always some something that needs to be added or something that's changed. And yeah, the tinkering remotely is clutch. 

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): And if it's like sensitive data, if you ever get into monitoring assets for a company who's oh, we want to really be careful that no one is intercepting these signals for, whatever high end darpa, suit delivery. I don't know. Who knows what's going on.

You could completely lock that down as well and put it on its own private. And have all of that data completely encrypted from end to end. So here's some cool stuff you can do

Kurt: Yep.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): and you know who to talk to, if you need to dig into any of that.

Kurt: Absolutely.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): Found on the doc section and, what a cool conversation.

Thanks, man. I appreciate it.

Kurt: Yeah, of course, Ryan.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): Great hearing about someone who you know is in the trenches and. Really understands what it takes to deliver value to the end customer.

Kurt: That's what it's all about,

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): man it so is right. Like how close to the dollars can you get what you're talking about? Saving 'em, making more of 'em, whatever it

Kurt: right?

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): Saving one. Yeah, it's surprising how there's just like dollars hidden under every stone that you un uncover. Like what? Over here,

Kurt: Yep, exactly right. And not just tech for tech's sake, even though I'm a total nerd and I love the tech for tech's sake, that's not the point.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): yeah. That's an expensive way to prove a

Kurt: Yep,

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): is tech for tech's

Kurt: exactly.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): Kurt, thanks for your time. We'll be in touch.

Kurt: Thanks, Ryan. Take care. 

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): So if someone wanted to reach out and get ahold of you and learn more about what a software first approach looks like you've got no skin in the game on a particular silver bullet technology that you're shilling,

Kurt: Right.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): the right tech for the right application. How would they learn more about you? How would they get in touch?

Kurt: Sure. LinkedIn, probably the best way to find me, Kurt Nehrenz. I'm sure it'll be in the description here. Not an easy one to spell, but I'm there. Or Kurt, kurt@lamplightlogistics.com is my email. Those are probably the best ways. We have a website.

It shows some stuff.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): Got some stuff, 

Kurt: yeah.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): got some images. It's 

Kurt: yep. Yep.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): All right, Kurt. Thanks so much for coming in and sharing a little bit about, the niche of RTLS, which actually isn't all that niche at all. It's a fairly venerable, application that's out there. And

Kurt: But growing quickly.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): Yeah.

Kurt: no. No more dark spots. People are gonna expect to know where their things are. It's gonna be mandated rather than a nice to have before too long. So time to get on board.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): everything else are getting so high. We have to, reusing the investments that we've already made.

Kurt: Yep.

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): Yeah. Thanks so much.

Kurt: Yeah. Thanks Ryan. I appreciate it and, all the support from Soracom 

Ryan Carlson (Tech Evangelist): i.

Kurt: We'll, continue to engage with y'all.